SalesHQ

I have 20+ years experience in every aspect of sales, sales training, people development, business consulting, customer service and new territory start ups.  However, I have been denied the opportunity to apply or interview for positions requiring these skill sets because I do not have a 4 year degree.  I have never met anyone that has a degree in salesmanship or any of these skills.  What makes and employer think that a recent college graduate with no experience can do a better job than a non grad with a life time of experience?  This is the frustration I am facing trying to start a new career at 57 in todays job market.  Any suggestions?

I don't have any specific ideas on how to combat this other than continue to apply (even if they say they require a degree) and make sure that your resume sells your skills and accomplishments.  I have worked for companies who had similar policies, yet was able to hire the candidate of my choice even if they didn't have a degree.  I'm a firm believer that product and company info can be taught, whereas drive, flexibility and other personal characteristics which lead to success are naturally inherent in a person -- and not the result of a degree. Therefore, I'm more interested in what the person has done and, more importantly, what they can do in the future for me, not that they have a piece of paper saying they graduated from some university ...

Given the amount of experience you have, I wonder if anyone would even notice if you left education off your resume and just listed your experience .... or made a general reference that additional work history, accomplishments, education and references are available upon request (since you'd want to limit your resume to 1 or 2 pages) ...

Best of luck ...

Somehow, you need to get to the decision maker. I think those resumes are prescreened. Did you get an interview at all? What if you research that company and see who the Grand Pooba is and send the resume directly to them. The reason I am saying that is I just got a job that I was first automatically declined through HR, because I did not have direct experience in that particular field. I did not even get an interview. My former boss knows the decision maker and he asked him to at least interview me. Once they saw that my skills were totally transferable, they hired me. Interview is everything.

I get asked for my resume often when people want to engage my services

I tell them i don't use a CV and ask would they like to see my references.

I left high school at 15 and raced motorcycles for a living for seven years, this where i learned sales and marketing, .....as the property. Now I walk with the mortals.

i'm thinking too.. one of my good friends is in 50's and I would so hire her.  she is such  a hard worker...if i end up hiring people i would snag her up..she gets results...there is a few people out there that i know of.

i'm in a similar situation..unemployed and no degree.  i've gone to college some...so this is what i'm doing.  there is free money out there for people like us (dislocated workers) through the gov't to go to school for free.  the school i'm looking at and the people i am working with call it a certificate of contingency...or you could wrap up your degree...and they could form it to what you want it to be...like me   my background is 13+ years in advertising/marketing but i'm interested in computers and they have money for that.  so i could make a combination i'm going to set up my experience to the specific types of jobs i want and hopefully get the training for free and ..like richanna says...just have to get to the decision maker...network through old bosses..that was a good idea. anyways...thought that might be a creative way to get the job you want but not really have the degree. 

these threads are full of such good info...

JDG. you make all great and valid points hiring the older worker. Funny thing I was talking wiht  the owner of the company I work with and we were discussing employee hiring. One of the issues our hiring practice and he made the statement that he wished he could find ten of me.

 It was at this point in our discussion that I thanked him and told him I am glad he feels that way however I would not hire me.The reason. health. The health insurance is much higher rate with older employees. My reason in 1996 my colon ruptured, in 2004 I had  bi-lateral hips,2007 back surgery. Since 1996 I have missed almost 3 years worth of work. This past week I missed one day and half days  two other days. Chances of health issues dramatically increase as we gain years. I wouod want people I can count on day in and day out. This is a consideration when hiring. The same as hiring a mother with small children as it usually is the mom who takes care of sick children ,taking the children to the doctor or school events. Not always however it is most of the time. Family should come first however  these items are looked at and become part of the decision makin right or wrong.

  Another interesting point of view. When we hire a person 40 and up it is more difficult to have a change in the thought pattern of what they believe they are worth.They want big bucks but have a difficult time charging the dollars we must to give them the big bucks.It is much easier for us to mold those under 40 to our way of selling flat rate .I do believe it is limited to the industry I  am invovled with , the plumbers think of themselves as being only a plumber and not a sales professional that happens to be a sales technician.

   We are presently researching the idea of hiring sales professionals and training them to become plumbers. I firmly believe that it would be easier to retrain a sales professional to do the trade than what it is proving to be changing the plumber to a sales professional. It can be done  however there are huge costs to the new training to not only train the sales mind but to change the perception of themselves.

  A far as who works harder that is relative to the drive of the professional. There are lazy 50 year olds as there are lazy 20 year olds.

  Education , I am not sure that is where the center of the focus lies.I believe the energy ,drive,longevity to the company meaning a 30 year old may stay with the company 30 years where a 50-60 year old may stay a few years before retiring. Those with a degree typically  are much younger and that is where I believe the education  and degree comes into play. Otherwise a person with  a k-12 degree would not be considered for a sales job and we know that is not the case. Asking for a college degree allows the company to age discriminate legally.

Valid point.  We had one of the younger generation working for us for a few months. This person was all about what is in it for me and he also was very adament about not doing some of the things we wanted out of him. He did not last long a good managment decision.I think if the hiring process is a tougher one screening those types  then this would be a non issue concerning the bad attitude.

  Why do companies have horrible hiring policies?

Hello,

I think there is no one that can look inside a person and judge what they can do or produce.  Education doesn't give a good snapshot of what a person is made of or can do. 

I am in Illinois, near Peoria and am looking for others in the area to network with.  Please drop me an email if you are interested - comcast.net">billner@comcast.net.

Thanks,

Craig

 one question and I am not asking this to fire  people up. It is a question that anyone who is hiring asks.I like the baseball analogy. I have a person who hits 280 and has been in the major elagues for ten years. I have a new player who is hitting 250-260 and is ten years younger. Talent wise they are pretty equal potential wise they are equal.Who do I retain? Cahnces are I am going to keep the younger person who I can teach ,train to become better in a realtively short time. What is the difference between a 280 hitter and a 300 hitter. The answer one hit a week.

 The question being two people who are quite similar. The older one has more experience the younger  has more education. I must weigh how much time it wil take to get the younger one to the experience level of the older person.If I feel the older persons experience outweighs the potential of the younger person the hire is obvious. However if the upside potential  of the younger person is greater in my estimation I must choose what is beneficial in the long run for the company.

  Yep not everybody has a body that is run down Ro.  That was not the point. The point  was the older the person the more likely the health issues arise.

  In all cases hiring is shooting dice. It is a belief that potential is greater with the one they hire.Often times the dice is thrown badly.You cannot measure the heart of a person. What that person is willing to do to reach thier full potential. With two to three meetings this cannot be found. This cannot be found within the resume.A shot in the dark with a best guess.

I have no problem with what your stating  with the excpetion of health problems within any industry whether it is physical or mental.

 With the genx they have poor work ethics.

Hi Richanna,

It did occur to me as I was typing that some of my opinions may come over as "ageist" - and I am always mindful of these things and try to be as PC as I can be so as not to offend people, but there have been volumes written about the Gen Y work ethic- generation gap-syndrome; and I'm finding some of those writings to ring true in my experience.

Interesting poll from Rasmussen today;  http://www.rasmussenreports.com/public_content/lifestyle/general_lifestyle/may_2009/80_say_life_experiences_teach_more_than_college

Eighty-percent (80%) of Americans believe that individuals learn more practical skills through life experience and work rather than through college. The latest Rasmussen Reports national telephone survey found that 9% disagree and say more is learned in college.

Younger adults place more emphasis on college. Among those under 30, 20% say more learning takes place in a campus environment.

Democrats are more likely than Republicans to say college teaches more. Those not affiliated with either major party are more likely to say that life experience matters more.

Perhaps it's possible that more hiring managers are beginning to value experience over a degree ... CT's comments are right on about highlighting your experience -- while also profiling flexibility and desire to learn new things -- the key areas that might make some managers balk at hiring older workers. 

harriet - I like that!!.....

 Think about this for example: Yet for those who have the degrees and certificates and medals and such, as they are laid off by the "downsizing", "restructuring", "right-sizing" or whatever "izing" euphemisms they want to call it, these "degreed" workers are royally screwed. Even though they may have the degrees and the knowledge as well as the experience, as they are laid off they can't seem to land jobs fit for what they trained for or for what they are worth. America and America's  "Big Corp." are denying work to the very people that were instrumental in building this country's businesses. Now, for several years as Big Business is filling their pockets at the end of the fiscal years and many are "let go", due to these "izings", these jobs are dumped on already over-worked employees or sent overseas to the cheaper labor force. They have the rest of their employed by the short hairs. (did I say that right?) Either they accept the extra load piled on them or they go to the end of the line. Some are having to take jobs and accept monthly salaries that would be equivalent to what they would most likely spend on food in two weeks. I see these people in the unemployment agencies.  Not a pretty picture, not at all. America is screwing America. We have to be as creative as we can in order to compete with those who have the "educational advantage".  Experience and creativity is really what it will take for us to land the right job. Many such as I are taking a big risk at this time to enter an area that we have no experience in. But the rewards will outweigh the risk and I hope the wait, as the funds run dry.  I'm tired of  getting poorer by the year (I'm not kidding, either). So yeah, creativity and lots of it will be what it takes to get what we want. There is a lot of competition. I'm all ears for creative ideas.

Just to play devil's advocate...what if our "experience" has trained us to bad habits??